tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post4627419836164742313..comments2024-01-16T03:42:46.705-05:00Comments on The Downward Spiral: "Saving the World" Versus "Saving the Economy"Bill Hickshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17551954408189665078noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-72802234096578000842012-07-29T01:47:04.403-04:002012-07-29T01:47:04.403-04:00They'll never be willing to give it up. Which ...They'll never be willing to give it up. Which is why some of us will likely have to take it from themAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-44718950653391293182012-07-28T22:09:27.312-04:002012-07-28T22:09:27.312-04:00Rest assured, when I say "shared sacrifice&qu...Rest assured, when I say "shared sacrifice" I mean for it to start with the rich. When they use their media lapdogs to denigrate anyone who advocates for "class warfare," it really means that they are afraid that the rest of us will at some point start fighting bak.Bill Hickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17551954408189665078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-73637093320486806792012-07-28T21:00:05.809-04:002012-07-28T21:00:05.809-04:00I'll think about shared sacrifice when the ric...I'll think about shared sacrifice when the rich are ready to give up an their 10K square foot mansions and excessive consumption. It's easy to tell a pauper to live less than a pauper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-82656112299930725922012-07-28T17:07:58.912-04:002012-07-28T17:07:58.912-04:00Regarding Hedges fourth child, he was recently ask...Regarding Hedges fourth child, he was recently asked exactly that question by Bill Moyers. Clearly dumbfounded by that question, he had no good reply, and just mumbled something irrelevant. Here is that part of the transcript:<br /><br />BILL MOYERS: But here's another paradox then, you present us with a lot of paradoxes. You just-- you and your wife a year and a half ago had your fourth child. How can you introduce another life into so forlorn a future?<br /><br />CHRIS HEDGES: That’s not an easy question to answer. I look at my youngest son, and his favorite book is “Out of the Blue,” which are pictures of narwhales and porpoises and dolphins. And I think, "It is most probable that within your lifetime, every single one of those sea creatures will be dead." And in so many ways, I feel that I have to fight for them.<br /><br />That even if I fail, they'll say, "You know, at least my dad tried." We've deeply betrayed this next generation on so many levels. And I can't argue finally, you know, given the empirical facts in front of us that hope is rational. And I retreat, like so many people in my book, into faith. And a belief that resistance and fighting for life is meaningful even if all of the outward signs around us deny that possibility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-25410239548898592532012-07-28T17:00:48.227-04:002012-07-28T17:00:48.227-04:00I figure we have between 10 to 20 years left befor...I figure we have between 10 to 20 years left before things really start to fall apart, meaning I will only be in my early to mid 60s. Not old and decrepit by any means, but too old to last long in a rapidly unravelling industrialized society.<br /><br />Of course, I wouldn't really mind being wrong about that.Bill Hickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17551954408189665078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-36304319473381787502012-07-28T15:58:23.131-04:002012-07-28T15:58:23.131-04:00"Now, I figure that the chances that I will l..."Now, I figure that the chances that I will live long enough to get truly old and helpless are slim."<br /><br />Woah! You're in your 40s. So you think the chances for you to live 20 or 30 more years are slim?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-9087656941459241992012-07-28T10:16:33.450-04:002012-07-28T10:16:33.450-04:00I've often thought that those most open to bei...I've often thought that those most open to being 'peak oil aware' are likely to be those who have few to no children. There are exceptions, of course.<br /><br />But look at Heinberg, Kunstler, Matt Simmons, Matt Savinar (I know, astrology), Michael Ruppert, and so on. I think that having children can create a mental block in accepting that the future might be very, very dark.<br /><br />A lot of the brie-eaters you mentioned are liberal for other reasons. Most have no concept of the peak events and its implications. They think we'll all just be driving hydrogen cars.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-44506446069470887382012-07-28T10:01:05.373-04:002012-07-28T10:01:05.373-04:00I when so far as to have myself "fixed" ...I when so far as to have myself "fixed" <br />- what surprised me was the number of people who thought it was illegal for a single person to do so... <br />Also - my answer to the question "what if you change your mind?" : this world will never run out of children who need homes.starskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02661141833059602897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-9515569385077196612012-07-28T06:49:10.743-04:002012-07-28T06:49:10.743-04:00You are absolutely right about the attractiveness ...You are absolutely right about the attractiveness of a male in particular who chooses not to play the materialism game. That is particularly true among the upper middle class. Of course, they are also the people whose lifestyles are the worst for the environment even though many of them are NPR-listening, Daily Show-watching, brie-eating, wine-sipping, Obama-supporting liberals. They buy products advertised by corporate America as "green" but would look down their noses at anyone who was even by choice truly living a powered down lifestyle.Bill Hickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17551954408189665078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-40484549966656163952012-07-28T06:40:49.535-04:002012-07-28T06:40:49.535-04:00Hedges occasionally hints that he understands that...Hedges occasionally hints that he understands that continued economic growth is not possible, but usually only dances around the edge of the subject. Perhaps it's his decision to keep having babies that is keeping him from fully seeing the truth.Bill Hickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17551954408189665078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-21111968989560824442012-07-28T06:22:56.655-04:002012-07-28T06:22:56.655-04:00I'm not sure such a post would be terribly enl...I'm not sure such a post would be terribly enlightening. I'd like to say I made the decision because I carefully thought it out ad recognized the implications for the planet. But I'd be lying.<br /><br />The truth is that as a 20-something and still largely unaware of the issues I write about here, I decided that children would tie me down and prevent me from doing a lot of things I wanted to do in life (travel, in particular). It was only as I got into my 30s and then when I became Peak Oil aware in my 40s that I recognized that I had inadvertently made the right choice for larger reasons. Fortunately, I had met and then married a woman whose goals of what she wanted to do in life were also dependent on not having children. That was key. I wonder if I would have had the conviction to walk away from our relationship had she been insistent on having babies.<br /><br />As for feeling "biologically unsatisfied," not in the slightest. I used to occasionally worry about dying old, helpless and alone. Now, I figure that the chances that I will live long enough to get truly old and helpless are slim.Bill Hickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17551954408189665078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-91795121700960540112012-07-28T05:48:17.807-04:002012-07-28T05:48:17.807-04:00Bill:
Can you write a post explaining your decisi...Bill:<br /><br />Can you write a post explaining your decision not to have children? It would be very nice to have a carefully thought out post with pros/cons. Do you feel "biologically" unsatisfied without kids? What about considering adoption (one can raise kids as well as a great act of kindness)?<br /><br />It is a question I've been grappling with for sometime. Intellectually it is a no brainer, but you look around, and wonder if you are insane.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-10337634854734851142012-07-28T02:09:13.000-04:002012-07-28T02:09:13.000-04:00It is always upsetting when I find out a guy I thi...It is always upsetting when I find out a guy I think is on the ball has a lot of children. Paul Gilding (author of "The Earth is Full") has 5 children.<br /><br />A basic problem we face is our basic biological drives. Besides survival, we all have the urge (sometimes successfully repressed) to reproduce. Involved in this is the need to find a mate, and to do so, we need to be attractive. <br /><br />Our culture places high emphasis on material wealth in that equation. The system we operate in has a high resource use, but many of us feel the need not to cut back, but to push the bounds of that system.<br /><br />Simply put, the guy that has the second-hand Corolla and mends his own pants is less attractive, in general, than the guy with the Porsche and the Italian suit.<br /><br />One thing you're missing in the above is that the poor ONLY are decreasing their birth rates. The educated and the wealthy are not, and frankly they won't until they are forced to do so by their own economic decline.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-37154437920600343782012-07-27T22:54:58.711-04:002012-07-27T22:54:58.711-04:00I was a big fan of Chris Hedges. I read that he a...I was a big fan of Chris Hedges. I read that he and his wife recently had their FOURTH child (like me, he's in is mid-50s). So, for all his soaring rhetoric (a lot of which I agree with), it seems he thinks we can just keep on GROWING (like a cancer on the planet)if we just share the wealth more equitably. What a huge disappointment. We're doomed. No doubt about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-77113985680757914452012-07-27T22:35:27.734-04:002012-07-27T22:35:27.734-04:00Save the World?
Save the world? Naw, might as wel...Save the World?<br /><br />Save the world? Naw, might as well quit:<br />It’s over, we ain’t savin’ shit;<br />Instead, let’s reflect <br />On the places we’ve trekked, <br />And start writing up our obit.BenjaminTheDonkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18304901070197940843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-66266502450569625182012-07-27T20:19:44.869-04:002012-07-27T20:19:44.869-04:00Another tired old line is the, "Well, why don...Another tired old line is the, "Well, why don't YOU leave then?" comeback. I did my part, choosing not to have children. Not much else I can really do.Bill Hickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17551954408189665078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3862216000300765627.post-55237074886482453592012-07-27T18:55:25.751-04:002012-07-27T18:55:25.751-04:00I can never mention this topic without "eugen...I can never mention this topic without "eugenics" being thrown in my direction; on the outside - I can congratulate a friend on a new baby - while thinking, "do you understand what kind of a world you've brought them into?"starskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02661141833059602897noreply@blogger.com